Edomites, Lihyanites and Nabateans inherited this skill? Are these tourist sites now identified at Madian Saleh the same as those we see discussed in the saheeh ahadith during the Tabuk expedition or is that a different location because these sites are identified as built by Nabataens and not Thamud and are considered much later than Thamud people (if we consider the finds to be absolutely authentic that these are Nabataens who built them. The fact that these structures are still around today, after nearly 4000 years is a testament to their quality and design. The Qurn saysand remember how he made you succeedd and lodged you in the land. So Ad lives in a mountainous country with lush valleys; and they made altars on the mountains. The first ancient tribe of Thamud should be distinguished from later tribes named Thamud by historians and archaeologists, as well as the region itself, which was known as the land of Thamud and sometimes simply Thamud.. What is the issue here? There was a long period of royal authority and sedentary culture. you who live in the clefts of the rocks[a] Certainly many of these ancient civilizations were advanced for their times and certainly more advanced than the Arabs as they had very little structures and civilization development and they were tribal societies and not big cities. Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in: You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. The Kingdom of Thamud was the first existing kingdom on the Arabian peninsula, according to Assyrian and Roman sources. Have not invested any considerable time investigating the actual archeological claims. There are some scholars who say a mountain split apart and the camel walked out. Saudi Arabia, in terms of archaeology, is really untouched. al-Hijr, the second most important centre of the Nabataean empire, is the title of the 15th chapter of the Quran. Ok thanks jazzakkallah but do you think the verse can be in past tense and the verse you quote above in your article 89:9 is it talking about homes on the plains or homes in mountains and the verse makes it sound like they could see these houses in the mountions so it makes it sound like this verse is saying the tombs are thamud dwellings so how do we explain this verse or is it just saying they used to do that like ad used too do pillars in the verse before or is that verse saying as well they could still see those pillars jazzakkallah sorry to keep bothering you. In fact, we even know the scripts they used! Instead, the camel is killed by a certain "accursed Amar", and the camel's foal stands upon a rock and curses Thamud, leading to the tribe's annihilation except for a single lame woman who is spared to spread the message of the destruction. A temple they constructed at Rawwafa, 200 miles north of Medina, mentions the following in a Greek-Nabataean bilingual inscription: For the wellbeing of the rulers of the whole world . Assalamualaikum thnx for the link. [5] This entire passage has been sent by Waqar. They are mentioned in the Quran as examples of civilizations that Allah had destroyed because of their sins and as signs of the fleeting nature of the worldly power. after Isa (as), the period there were no prophets aynmore- how they could then deny their messenger? The tribe refused to heed him, saying that Salih was merely a mortal, and demanded a sign from God. Several other inscriptions bearing the namesAad and Iram have been discovered in Jordan. Summary: The cravings that Quran says were done by Thamud were in Wad l-Qura. But as a sign of their wickedness, they killed her. Being Dutiful to Parents: Islamic knowledge, The Door to Eternal Paradise: Islamic knowledge. The story of Miraj- Isra _ Suhih al Bukhari, Can you brush your teeth in Ramadan? (LogOut/ 62-63]. [14] The Thamd in question were Roman auxiliary troops, as the inscription states explicitly: For the well-being of the rulers of the whole world Marcus Aurelius Anthoninus and Lucius Aurelius Verus, who are the conquerors of the Armenians. We do not believe in the Bible the way it is today. This implies that the carvings in Madain Saleh (which in fact date to the first century CE) are not from the Thamudians, but rather their successors many centuries later in the same area. (41:13) The Quran on the Cerebrum: _ Qur'an and Science. What is uncovered thus far reveal that the structures are not dwellings, but tombs. Salamun alaikum, God chose the prophet Salih to warn the polytheistic Thamud that they should worship the One God. Like the people of Ad, they erected huge buildings on the plains and hewed beautiful homes out of the hills. Even if the prophet saw these exact structures which are visible today and we can, hypothetically, prove beyond a shadow of doubt that no one ever lived in them, and he took them to be the dwellings of the Thamud, that isnt a major problem. Have not read their own bibles. BUY ISLAMIC BOOKS by The Sincere Seeker for Adults & Children on AMAZON: https://www.amazon.com/thesincereseekerFOLLOW The Sincere Seeker on social media to . Change), You are commenting using your Twitter account. Thats it. Here our discussion lies around the location of the thamud people and the houses/tombs they carved out of the stones and mountains. Now today, Thamudic ones have not remained and what is preserved are the Nabatean ruins, Assalam alikum I think what the people are trying to say is if I got this right is that the hadith says dont enter the homes houses of thamud so the verses makes it sound like the houses were still standing tall back then and some non muslims use this hadith to say the muhammad peace be upon him thought that these houses that were built by the thamud but that he got it wrong because these tombs were built by the nabtions not thamud and Ibn Kathir thought the same this is what I think they mean. The Thamud did not worship God, and were disobedient. [17] The Muslim governor of Egypt encouraged the migration of tribes from the Arabian Peninsula to Egypt to increase the Muslim population in the region and to strengthen his regime by enlisting warrior tribesmen to his forces, encouraging them to bring their families and entire clans. Thamud used to carve out rocks in the valley And of course, they were also polytheists. It was He who brought you into being from the earth and made you inhabit it, so ask forgiveness from Him, and turn back to Him: my Lord is near, and ready to answer." Whereas the people who did cravings in al-Hijr were Nabateans. Allah doesnt need you. [20] The Arabs of the caliphate accommodated many new tribes in isolated areas to avoid conflict with the locals; caliph Uthman ordered his governor, Muawiyah I, to settle the new tribes away from the original population. Jazak Allah, Ok thanks jazzakkallah that about it thanks but out of the 8 theorys I put down before witch one would you pick to be the best interpretation thanks and when you say (archaic) do you mean that are civilization is better then the people of AD relics or the other way round that there relics are better than are houses or do you just mean there relics are better then the mekkahans houses and madian houses etc I didnt really understand you by that bit but thanks for your helping jazzakkallah. Rather, it tells us to look at the region in which Thamud had existed as well as the many generations after them. [27] Both tribes are of great reputed antiquity and, according to traditional Arab genealogists, are two of the four ba 'ida, or extinct tribes. This individual was probably a merchant or official in service of the Babylonian court. 4. The Quran mentions the Thamud as an example of an ancient polytheistic people who were destroyed by God for their sins. [Qur'an . The Nabatean inscriptions are the ancient equivalent of graffiti, which humans even today have a predilection for. 11. The Arabs then could see Thamud dwellings but we today cannot. This also makes it clear that the people were punished. The Aad and Thamud were both located in the northwestern part of modern day Saudi Arabia near the border of Jordan. It is very conceivable that those individuals who established this society became the pillars of the nation and their descendents took advantage of that and maintained a stranglehold on the wealth of the nation. Success comes from Allah, and Allah knows best. Also bonus when you say there buildings were not on the surface what do you mean do you mean the outside was gone but you could see the inside like a cave do you mean that, 15. And perhaps, using the knowledge, culture, and technology from the Aad, they established a new society. They write new content and verify and edit content received from contributors. So youd then say that the buildings at Madain Salih were indeed originally Thamudic and then after that built upon by other nations? Not only did they reject them, they mocked, ridiculed, and in the case of Salih (AS) they even tried to kill him. There has come to you clear evidence from your Lord. Further confirmation of their service under the Romans, comes via a late 4th (or early 5th century) military document Notitia Dignitatum, which clealy mentions two cavalry units of Thamud, one serving in Egypt and the other in Palestine. 'Aad and Thamud are two of several communities described in the Quran as recipients of God's chosen prophets - and being utterly destroyed for rejecting them. And remember when He made you successors after the Aad and settled you in the land, [and] you take for yourselves palaces from its plains and carve from the mountains, homes. In other words either the evidence no longer exists (no problem) or Thamudic dwellings in North West Arabia are yet to be discovered. . [Prophet], it is your Lord who is the Strong, the Mighty One. (LogOut/ In my research, I did discover that the tombs do contain pre-Nabatean inscriptions. When they cut the hamstring of a female camel that God had sent down for them, despite the prophet's warnings, they were annihilated, except for Salih and his followers. Their early inscriptions were in Aramaic, but gradually switched to Arabic, and since they had writing, it was they who made the first inscriptions in Arabic. They are related to the Banu Abs tribe.[33]. [2] The Thamud are not specially connected to the Thamudic scripts, an aggregate term for understudied writing systems of Ancient Arabia. We do not take it as a science book and neither should we take it as a book of archaeology. Thus, from the aforementioned verses we have gleaned the following: 1. But the Thamud were more nuanced in their rejection. In other words either the evidence no longer exists (no problem) or Thamudic dwellings in North West Arabia are yet to be discovered. Obviously, the Thamud were much more advanced technologically than the Aad. If the Bible tells us nothing more, at least it illustrates that carving out structures on mountains predated the Nabateans, and that is all we need to refute the Christian allegation against the Quran. This bears enough similarity to the description of the Thamd dwellings in theQurn to induce certain authors to claim that they are the houses of the Thamd. The Fatimid era was the peak of Bedouin Arab tribal migrations to Egypt. 7. [22], A poem attributed to Umayya ibn Abi--alt, a Meccan contemporary of Muhammad who refused to accept Islam, contains a reference to the camel and Thamud. As we know, he gave the nations some period until the determined day of punishment. So they concluded that the Nabateans did constructed them. It sure is something to ponder over and come up with a hujja to explain. Required fields are marked *. They did worship Allah, which Ill prove soon. Hence, they had become very rich. Also what time do you think noah ad and thamud came. They used to carve in the past and their present structure is not described in this Ayah. The Thamud demanded and received a sign from Allah. It is addressed there you who say to yourself, It was these nine families that cause much of the problems for Salih. And Ad and Thamud as has been made clear from their dwellings. Meaning ibn kathir thought these tombs were built by thamud as well but got it wrong, I agree also Im of the opion the hadith witch says dont enter the dwellings I think the prophet said dont enter the lands not houses because there are only 4 hadith witch mention that and 3 of them doesnt have the arabic word for dwelling there any way thats why dwelling is in brackets also the one hadith what does mention dwelling in arabic misken can mean land any way because it is used in the quran and there are some places it is translated as dwelling places not literally houses so Im of the opion the prophet was saying dont enter the land and even if it did mean houses it could be that there were a few bricks in the valley plain there and that is what he meant because if it was the same area then that is why some people think the prophet meant the nabateans buildings jazzakkallah also in verse 40:21 out of the 8 theorys I have put down witch one do you think is the right one what does atharan mean to you jazzakkallah because if it means remains then it just means there were just a bit of large bricks broken pillars there witch just shows they were better than the Arabs jazzakkallah what could be what the prophet meant dont enter the fallen down houses what ever left of there builds like a few large bricks and broken pillars, Also those 4 hadith dont mention thamud by name in just says the land of al hijr or the people of al hijr or region of al hijr but never thamud but yes I agree with the well but there are Wells all over the region of al hijr like al ula and such also al hijr might be anywhere with a rocky area like yemon or jordan also there is a place in oman called al hijr so could be anywhere like yemon also there is a place called thamud in yemon near where ad lived near hadramawt so you see what I mean could be there, Assalam alikum I was just wondering how do we explain 28:58 witch nation is it talking about and is it talking in past or present tense because this verse sounds like its talking about thamud those buildings witch were built by nabtions. 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